Curse

Como Fort · Oct 19, 2005, 11:49 AM // 11:49

Ok so my other thread got closed because it didn't hold an idea and probably cause the guy who closed it takes part in these spikes.

So before I actually do make my suggestion, lets get a few things straight about what I think; -

1. Does spiking actually show skill? As one of my colleagues has already said, why grind with stuff like IWAY and Ranger OoV Spike? How many rank 6+'s are there because they can shoot Dual Shot and Punishing Shot on 1,2,3?

2. Why do spikes happen? Spikes happen because people want a way to quick fame is all. Like I already said it doesn't take much skill to fire at 3,2,1 does it? Its just a lame way to get fame IMO.

3. Can people not come up with their own build? Well sure they can. Sometimes if your lucky people do use a balanced build. Lets see. In Tombs yesterday, out of 5 matches to make it a fair number, how many normal builds did we play? Well, the first was Ranger Spike which we beat, 2nd was IWAY, 3rd was a balanced build, 4th was a mixture of IWAY and Ranger Spike, and the 5th was Courtyard with a Ranger Spike and IWAY. LoL. Skills, me thinks not?

Ok, so my suggestion? Hmm, what could change all spiking? I KNOW! A limit on proffessions. We say that like you can only have 3 of the same proffession in a group. Crazy, but it would stop a Spike.

Ok so flame me all you want but honestly, think about it and you will see this will actually stop Spikes.

Schorny · Oct 19, 2005, 12:09 PM // 12:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Como Fort

1. Does spiking actually show skill? As one of my colleagues has already said, why grind with stuff like IWAY and Ranger OoV Spike? How many rank 6+'s are there because they can shoot Dual Shot and Punishing Shot on 1,2,3?

You need coordination.
It's like clearing UW or FoW - coordination is sufficient.

Every build is easy to play - you just need to coordinate.

Quote:

2. Why do spikes happen? Spikes happen because people want a way to quick fame is all. Like I already said it doesn't take much skill to fire at 3,2,1 does it? Its just a lame way to get fame IMO.

Spike happens because it is a powerful way of killing someone.
To kill someone you have these options:

1) shutdown the monks
2) drain the monks energy by doing much damage over time
3) spiking someone

and spiking is the most easiest one (easy in: the hardest to counter)

Quote:

3. Can people not come up with their own build? Well sure they can. Sometimes if your lucky people do use a balanced build. Lets see. In Tombs yesterday, out of 5 matches to make it a fair number, how many normal builds did we play? Well, the first was Ranger Spike which we beat, 2nd was IWAY, 3rd was a balanced build, 4th was a mixture of IWAY and Ranger Spike, and the 5th was Courtyard with a Ranger Spike and IWAY. LoL. Skills, me thinks not?

They can and they came up with Spike.

If someone comes up with a good build - why not play it?
Look at chess: most people use spanish or russian opening, but there are far more ways to open the game. And no matter what you do - someone has already done it before you.

Quote:

Ok, so my suggestion? Hmm, what could change all spiking? I KNOW! A limit on proffessions. We say that like you can only have 3 of the same proffession in a group. Crazy, but it would stop a Spike.

It would be stupid - because you essentially killed many good tactics.

Quote:

Ok so flame me all you want but honestly, think about it and you will see this will actually stop Spikes.

Why stop spiking? Make an anti spike build and kick their asses.

If you say: 90% of all groups are either spike or IWAY so make an anti-spike-anti-iway build and you will win 90% with ease.

What's the problem?

To me it seems you get beaten by IWAY and spike all the time so you are fed up with it, right? So please: make a counter build and rock the hall

Goonter · Oct 19, 2005, 01:02 PM // 13:02

Im intreseted in hearing what youd consider an anti spike build.

Not to say its not exsistant, but that,....I cant think of anything. Ive seen some creative spikes.
Its like...any spike counter you prepare for, theres a different spike to eat through you still.

Im not going to flame away, just add my 2 cents.

Spiking takes offencive corrdination. Easy? probably...depending on how you spike. With practice it becomes easier.

There are alternative methods to spiking (heavy hexing builds come to mind), however, like schorny said, its the noticable better option than trying to get monks.

If you do go after monks, your running through a front line defence, getting snared, putting your healers that heal you at jepordy, or your just by yourself taking damage. Its normally a losing stradigy.

And even if you limited the number of classes per match, youll still face spike damage, just in a different fashion.

Is spiking a problem? Well...it is sort of over common. But, as things goes, its the smartest best corrdinated way to take the offence. And one form of spiking isnt without its counter...as I know of yet. For instance, everyone knows the counter to lightning spikes, and soon, it will be commonly known counters to ranger spikes. (just a start, tactics attribute - shields up!)

And lastly, like I was saying in your other thread, ranger spike is common because people like to play rangers, not so much because rangers spike better.
There is also, a lack of preparation for the opposition, giving ranger teams an advantage. Average team thinks to counter monks/warriors/elementist and thats about it.

Como Fort · Oct 19, 2005, 01:54 PM // 13:54

Hmm, well the question is how do you counter a spike unless you have Aegis up all the time? Mesmer carries Shatter Enchantment... Also if I want Shields Up means I have to sacrifice my Mesmer skills just for 1 shout in which again I have to pour more attribute points into. Its pointless.

Just to point out... We don't get beaten by IWAY, its like my friend Timoz said, its just that we are sick of seeing them. I mean we see them so often that people in our clan even have messages which they say to them at the end i.e. "No Monk = No win" and stuff like that. Thats how long we have had to face this rubbish lol.

@Ranger Spikes - Owns Ele Spike because of the Armor+ against Ele attacks, can be done from so far away Monks may not be in Healing range, Rangers can shoot off 2 attacks for +150 dmg in less than 1.25 seconds, and lastly the things that do the damage Interrupt as well = Aegis ownt!

Nice one for putting like a 1 second stop after each interrupt, gj A.Net...

Calnaion Blackhawk · Oct 19, 2005, 01:58 PM // 13:58

w00t SoL R0xx0rs

yea ill stop with teh leet talk,

i think spike does require co-ordination but also, it doesnt take brains ;0

the trouble is that once someone uses a build, it gets RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOd... and RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOd some more. people arent creative anymore, fame means nothing becuase its so easily earned with nubs just stealing builds that WE(good players) think of, its kinda annoying

Goonter · Oct 19, 2005, 02:27 PM // 14:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Como Fort

Hmm, well the question is how do you counter a spike unless you have Aegis up all the time? Mesmer carries Shatter Enchantment... Also if I want Shields Up means I have to sacrifice my Mesmer skills just for 1 shout in which again I have to pour more attribute points into. Its pointless.

@Ranger Spikes - Owns Ele Spike because of the Armor+ against Ele attacks, can be done from so far away Monks may not be in Healing range, Rangers can shoot off 2 attacks for +150 dmg in less than 1.25 seconds, and lastly the things that do the damage Interrupt as well = Aegis ownt!

Well for starters, in your team of 8, why does your mesmer have to sacrifice anything? Warriors can be tactical. Plus, E/W with wards and tactics is pretty fortifing too.
There are so many ways you can do it. And its being done.
Shatter Enchantment is good way to set up a spike, but usually, Ive seen ranger spike teams go with curses to remove enchantments completely. Either way, if your anticapation is correct your a step ahead of your opponent. And because your anticapting ranger spike....

Ranger spike just might own ele spike, like you were saying.
For all of the high dps eleys put out, they dont outlast the rangers normally.
I can probably be proven wrong, but this is what ive noticed so far.

Savio · Oct 19, 2005, 05:05 PM // 17:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Como Fort

Ok so my other thread got closed because it didn't hold an idea and probably cause the guy who closed it takes part in these spikes.

I don't play PvP beyond TA, so tossing around random facts/insults isn't a good idea. If you want to discuss ranger spikes, go to the Gladiator's Arena or The Campfire. If I don't see a coherent suggestion about ranger spikes coming from this thread I'm going to close this one too.

stumpy · Oct 19, 2005, 05:15 PM // 17:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Como Fort

Rangers can shoot off 2 attacks for +150 dmg in less than 1.25 seconds, and lastly the things that do the damage Interrupt as well = Aegis ownt!

Nice one for putting like a 1 second stop after each interrupt, gj A.Net...

Rangers cannot shoot off 2 attacks in 1.25 seconds ... the fast they can hit it is 1.33 with speed buffs. I agree spikes are tough to counter but it is the same as every spike, you have to save the target, if a spike cant kill the target they start to falter, they rely on taking em out 1 by 1 and getting the upper hand, if they dont kill someone on the first 2 spikes, they are in trouble. Against good teams anyways.

Medion · Oct 19, 2005, 05:59 PM // 17:59

Quote:

fame means nothing becuase its so easily earned with nubs just stealing builds that WE(good players) think of, its kinda annoying

then explain me why I only see rank 3+ teams in tombs. I mean, if it doesnt mean anything, why cant i join? (as a rank 1 person)

bout the 'noobs' stealing builds; I think its your own mistake to post PvP build on these forums. And if they recognize your build while fighting, they are no noobs according to me.

Quote:

Average team thinks to counter monks/warriors/elementist and thats about it.

Thats your own mistake too, I is actually good that other proffesions are being hard to counter. Why else would they be 'allowed' to join the groups?

And I do know a good way to counter those ranger spikes, but you know what. Im not going to post it here. look down

Quote:

I think its your own mistake to post PvP build on these forums.

Did I just quote myself?

Como Fort · Oct 19, 2005, 11:40 PM // 23:40

Well if you can counter Ranger Spikers thats great. However the one thing is that you are never sure you will see one on your way through tombs. As my tests show it is likely, but anything can happen.

Zhou Feng · Oct 20, 2005, 03:49 AM // 03:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Como Fort

1. Does spiking actually show skill? As one of my colleagues has already said, why grind with stuff like IWAY and Ranger OoV Spike? How many rank 6+'s are there because they can shoot Dual Shot and Punishing Shot on 1,2,3?

Let's see. You need to coordinate the spike. Furthermore you need to coordinate while under stress attack. You need to mantain steady control and seek the target you need as quickly as possible. Then you need to coordinate for your team to spike all at once for pure effectiveness hoping something doesnt mess it up. At this same time your enemy isnt there standing waiting for you to spike. Perhaps you are also being spiked, perhaps some classess are meddling with your spike Guardian, Blind, Fainheartdness, Weakness, KD, Interrupts, Aegis, Protective Spirit...

You say spiking doesnt require skill? IWAY maybe doesnt but spiking does.

twicky_kid · Oct 20, 2005, 03:51 AM // 03:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Medion

And I do know a good way to counter those ranger spikes, but you know what. Im not going to post it here. look down

shielding hands

tastegw · Oct 20, 2005, 03:58 AM // 03:58

double aegis owns ranger spike every time. as long as you can keep it up, they have no way to spike you.

4 rangers with 50% chance to miss= 2 rangers hitting you in terms of full dmg.

2 rangers isnt quite enough for a completed spike, especially when the ranger spike teams mes/necro is shut down by our mesmers.

so just go in well prepaired for both iway and ranger spike,
have your prot monk and one of your healers with aegis.

lishi · Oct 20, 2005, 08:00 AM // 08:00

i think good spiker use rend enhencement and rigor mortis ...

Undivine · Oct 20, 2005, 09:41 AM // 09:41

I don't PvP, so forgive me for a noobish question. But what is "IWAY" anyway? I keep hearing people refer to it and assume, as is typical in internet culture, that everyone happens to know the acronym.

Goonter · Oct 20, 2005, 01:47 PM // 13:47

IWAY stands for "I Will Avenge You" which is a shout that gives you 10 seconds of increased attack speed and a health regen of +3 for each dead ally on the field. The IWAY groups bring pets and a Necro for Order of Pain.
Pets give IWAY bonus when they die and Order of Pain effects every warrior.
The pets act as junk targets, and if attacked, usually drop pretty fast, which only adds to the stradigy of IWAY teams.

Its pretty easy to counter now that people see in a lot. But its still pretty overwhelming to new people, which is probably where its excelled as rank farming.

And most spikers, and diffenently ranger spiking use rend, rigor mortis or lingering curse. Really good teams spike in a second or less of the time the curse is applyed making it very challenging for monk reaction times.

Wards and shouts are the way to go. Ranger spikes, generally, are single target specialist. Also, if they arent using flight speed enhancing buffs, and even if they are...moving left and right almost acts like aegis.
Only stop to cast. If they pinball targets, this is harder to insure your safety, but its better than nothing.

MSecorsky · Oct 20, 2005, 03:30 PM // 15:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goonter

IWAY stands for "I Will Avenge You" which is a shout that gives you 10 seconds of increased attack speed and a health regen of +3 for each dead ally on the field. The IWAY groups bring pets and a Necro for Order of Pain.
Pets give IWAY bonus when they die and Order of Pain effects every warrior.
The pets act as junk targets, and if attacked, usually drop pretty fast, which only adds to the stradigy of IWAY teams.

Its pretty easy to counter now that people see in a lot. But its still pretty overwhelming to new people, which is probably where its excelled as rank farming.

And most spikers, and diffenently ranger spiking use rend, rigor mortis or lingering curse. Really good teams spike in a second or less of the time the curse is applyed making it very challenging for monk reaction times.

Wards and shouts are the way to go. Ranger spikes, generally, are single target specialist. Also, if they arent using flight speed enhancing buffs, and even if they are...moving left and right almost acts like aegis.
Only stop to cast. If they pinball targets, this is harder to insure your safety, but its better than nothing.

Interesting thing about them IWay order necros...

They're not too fond of Greater Conflaguration.

Savio · Oct 20, 2005, 04:10 PM // 16:10

I give up. I was hoping that this would actually develop into a suggestion, but I guess not. If you want to discuss ranger spikes and/or how to counter them, go to The Campfire or The Gladiator's Arena. There you'll get better responses.